Tuesday
Mar042008
Love It Or Hate It? - TWiT 134
Tuesday, March 4, 2008 at 10:47AM 
There have been numerous comments about TWiT 134: Pave The Cowpaths on our private donors forum, most of them critical of the subject matter, one of our guests, an irrelevant discussion about audio issues in the middle, and my recommendation of a book by Orson Scott Card. Here's the response I posted on the forum. I wanted to post it here, too, to give you all a chance to comment.
I knew some of you would hate the show - and some of you would love it (far more lovers on Twitter and Pownce than here, not surprisingly). Unlike mainstream media, I don't make programming decisions based on what "most people" will like. That's the strength of this new medium - it's not ratings driven, it's idea driven. Sometimes TWiT isn't going to match your expectations. There are people who want it to be a TechTV Alumni fest, others who want it to be a tech news roundtable. It will be those sometimes, but I program TWiT as a show that reflects the most interesting and important issues in tech, as I see them. I don't mean to sound defensive here - I just want you to understand what I'm aiming for. The beauty of the new Internet media is that there's something for everybody. My shows are always going to reflect my interests. That's why I make 'em! If you share my interests, you'll enjoy (or at least appreciate) what I'm creating. If not, there are lots of other people doing really great programming, too. You have so many choices these days - let a million flowers bloom! I thought Winer was great - very, very insightful. If you can't get past his voice, listen to his ideas. Twitter et al. are new net memes that are as interesting, and I think, as significant, as RSS, but like RSS I don't expect everyone to get it right away. Dave is one of the few people I know who understand this stuff at a very deep level. As for the praise for Orson Scott Card - I love his work; I hate his politics. But that's no reason not to read or recommend him. I read many, many authors whose politics I abhor. If Card's homophobia or neanderthal agenda crept into his novels I'd not recommend him, but I can't think of a single incident where they have. If you can, please let me know and I'll stop recommending him. I do apologize for not editing out the audio issues talk - that was just an oversight. I certainly didn't mean to leave it in. I agree it wastes your time - very sorry.
Let's use the ratings system for this post to reflect your rating for the show. Thanks!
tagged TWiT, Twitter, dave winer, orson scott card, pownce in Blog
TWiT, Twitter, dave winer, orson scott card, pownce in Blog
Reader Comments (169)
How sad it would be if everyone always agreed! How boring it would be if it was the same cookie-cutter show every week! If i wanted that, I'd be watching TV all the time.
Leo, the biggest reason I listen to your shows (TWIT, The Tech Guy, etc.) is that you don't follow a standard template. You have a wide variety of guests who come from every facet of technology and your ability to bring these dissonant voices together into a entertaining and educational broadcast is amazing.
To those who do not understand that can stop listening, grab the remote, and get their technology news from G4TV.
As for Ender's Game... I don't know anything about Card's politics. I didn't know 20 years ago when I first read the book, and I still don't now that I read it again last night (thanks for the recommendation, Leo!). This was one of my favorite books ever, still is, and with this recent reminder, I dusted off my copy and gave to my son to enjoy for the first time.
I disagree with the politics of 3/4 of Hollywood, but I still go to see their movies. I'm willing to pay money to watch how well they can pretend to be someone they are not. Likewise, I buy fiction to read how well an author can make up stories. So when it comes to politics, I'd rather take my chances listening to the amateur liars than the professional ones.
Keep doing what you're doing Leo!
Leo,
I listen to TWIT for the frank, real discussions. I am so happy to know there are passionate, real journalists out there. I may not agree with everything your guests say but if everyone agreed on all of your topics...Well lets just say I would rather spend my time listening to the same old songs on the radio.
I have one more comment on Mr. Winer. While he won't win any popularity contests, he's the kind of person that this quote applies to:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
Leo, I don't know what all of this nonsense is about. I'm a relatively new listener to TWiT (and podcasting in general), but a long time fan of yours, and I thought the most recent show was great. I thought the guests and topics were great. There were some audio hiccups early on, but cripes, who cares. It's so minor. The show was entertaining as always.
Keep up the good work dude.
I found that this was a very good discussion on the issues relating to what is going on in Technology and the abundance of social media apps. I appreciated the discussion on Twitter vs Pownce because I am wondering the same thing.
I saw nothing wrong with this episode and I consider it one of the better episodes of TWIT and I have listened to all of them.
Thanks for the post and clarification.
Sorry to say, but this was the first episode of "This Week in Technology" (never knew that was the name of the show) that I couldn't listen to all the way through.
Twitter might be fun for you to use, but it really gets tiring to hear about it if you are not really interested in it. Imagine someone talking about Gmail on and on, it would get boring. And I don't believe the community on twitter is a real reflection of your listeners. I sometimes look at what you write on Twitter, but I am not into it and following people on there. For example, I am just not interested in Robert Scoble no matter how many times you mention him.
The discussion had some good parts, but really had some silly ideas. A dedicated podcast player is what the world needs? I didn't quite get it. My Nokia N95 does everything this "podcast player" was supposed to do and more.
Have no worries Leo. There hasn't been a single TWiT broadcast that I haven't enjoyed. Even when you guys go into the deepest ratholes, I still enjoy to listen to you and everyone else talk about current events in tech and in the world. Keep up the great stuff!
I loved it, and the one before, both took a more 'themed' approach rather than just news banter, and this for me provided increased value. More of the same please!
I actually enjoyed the show, however in regards to Winer, if you haven't met/listened to him before then yes he sounds a bit like a "you know what" however he knows what he's talking about and can be interesting.
I also found this to be very interesting - although not quite the normal TWiT,
Listening to it my car - I never felt the urge to skip it or turn it off - and I have 5900 tracks of other stuff on my iPod to listen to.
The content was interesting and thought provoking. The attitude of one guest was not a problem to me - strong opinions make for good debate.
I could have lived without the audio feedback discussion though.
On your Audible choice? I agree with you - whether a book is good or not depends on what is in the book and not the changing beliefs of the author. I have many of Card's books in my library (actual books!) and had no idea he was considered to be homophobic (or allegedly is).
Besides, not all books are made for all people.
How in the world are you supposed to pick a book if you must try and please all of your 200,000 odd listeners? What a limited set of choices that would give you!
Keep up the good work! I find the new mix of guests very interesting - and the topics deeper than merely "what about this new computer"
Leo - not sure what the hub-ub is about... I enjoyed this episode of TWIT just like all the others. Variety is the spice of life. And, as a gay man I was not in any way offended by your recommendation. A good book is a good book, is a good book. Keep up the good work and thanks for keeping my brain entertained everyday while I work.
I know I'm in the minority in the world, but I actually like to listen to people who differ in opinion, from me, and each other (we won't discuss how many hours I've spent listening to the Intelligence Squared debates by NPR podcast). I was surprised when I was listening to MacBreak Weekly that this was such a hated show. Winer is certainly a prickly guy, and I did find him grating and irritating, but he did have some interesting things to say. As any storyteller can tell you, it's the conflict that makes it interesting. A bunch of "yes men" hanging around talking about how great everything is wouldn't be a good show. THIS was a good show Leo (like you're still reading comments 3 days later). Technical difficulties happen, and to complain about the little audio trouble in the middle is like quibbling with a guitarist for missing a single chord transition during the 3rd encore of a free concert.
To the OSC controversy. I'm amazed that people have such trouble separating an artist from his art. There are TONS of musicians and actors who have beliefs I may not agree with, but if they do their job well I'm, by in large, going to enjoy that work and take it for what it's worth. I love Card's work (heck my middle kid's middle name is Ender), and while there are things I do and don't agree with in his personal philosophy, those don't particularly detract or enhance my ability to appreciate his work. I attended one of his writing classes a couple years ago and found him to be a nice guy, a great teacher, and somebody who at LEAST has put thought into his viewpoints, even the ones I disagree with.
I enjoyed the show and had a thought. In terms of monetization of Twitter, I wonder if they could do it by followers. Below a certain amount it would be free (I have one... so I would be fall into the free category.) If you have an Obama size "audience" that would cost. It seems a way to separate out the individual and corporate interest.
I worry about monetization through advertising... I'm scared it might spill over onto the cell phones.
Call me crazy but I never understand why TWiT listeners get upset about any given episode. For starters, the last episode was great--I'm really glad that Steve Gilmor finally made an appearance, and I'm always happy to hear Dave Winer speak. I subscribe to half a dozen podcasts that cover the top tech stories of the day/week, and I listen to all of them for different reasons. I keep coming back to TWiT because of the high quality of content: the audio quality, the guests, and the host are always top-notch.
You can't please all the people all the time, Leo, but we're all better off with TWiT than without it. My life is a wee bit richer and more entertaining because of TWiT and I'm very grateful for that.
Keep up the good work, and don't you go changin'!
I think the show would have be better without Winer. He is a dick. Any substance in his message was hard to digest because it was so dripping with arrogance.
To be honest I wanted to hear someone intervene. It is possible to be both passionate and respectful. I say DoS him .
Not to add to the already overwhelming response, but I wanted to chime in as well.
I think twit 133, with Coulton, Merlin, Veronica, Tom, etc. was probably the best twit in a long time. It was fun, there was a lot of interactions between the guests, and it was interesting.
So, no, 134 wasn't on the same level. But I still found it quite interesting. If I have any complaints, it's that the show didn't seem as conversational and as flowing as it could have been. All of the guests had interesting things to say.
As for OSC, I think that Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead are amazing, incredibly open-minded stories. It's a shame that the man is so close-minded, but oh well...
Hey,
Leo. No matter how you change the show.
I'll still listen.because,i'm a true leo fan. Some of your fans,that complain.are,sadly not a true fan. they don't have to listen,they all ways can leave.
cheers mate.
love your shows as all ways.
Leo,
I don't think that you are being defensive at all. I appreciate that you are doing these shows because it's the stuff you want to talk about and the people you want to talk to. I think all of your true fans get that and don't hold any single episode against you.
Now, that being said :-), I thought David Winer was probably the most disagreeable guest you've ever had on your show. It wasn't his voice or necessarily even his opinions...he just had a very confrontational air about him most of the time. There were times I found myself agreeing with him and still thinking, "Man, what a jerk!"
Of course, people could say that about Dvorak.org/blog just about every week :-), but John does the curmudgeon bit in a very fun-loving way. Winer just came off like he wanted to disagree with anything anybody said.
The one thing I expected from Winer was that he would know what he was talking about inside and out. But that whole segment in the middle when he was trying to describe what the heck Flicker Fan is was painful. I never really got what he was getting at and I felt like everybody on the panel agreed with me.
Anyway, enough complaining. Leo, your network is the best. This was maybe just one scratch on your obscenely fantastic slate of programming.
Keep up everything that you're doing! Thanks!
Tim
Hey leo
Good for you. Live your life. I thought the show good. The RSS part was good. There were moments that it got slightly random but big deal. I can't believe people are getting bother by this. Geeez. Like they could do any better.
As many have stated we dont listen to hear the same likeminded opinions. I love the shows and did get a chuckle at the resistance to be on the same show as Adam Curry, I thought I was in Jr High again! FWIW Juice and Outlook 2007 suit my RSS needs just fine, then again I'm syncing to a Sansa 280. Love the shows, keep up the pace!
Leo, I heard you mention the controversy over TWiT 134, and all I can say is, "WTF?" I enjoyed this episode and TWiT 133 a LOT more than I enjoyed any recent episode w/Calicanis's repeatedly slamming Cory Doctorow over his criticism of Audible's use of DRM and sucking up to Audible, while telling us how big a bankroll he carries and what a GREAT tipper he is! (Back when I lived in NYC we had a name for guys like Jason Calicanis - "mook".) OTOH, I wouldn't stop listening to one of your shows just b/c you sometimes have an annoying guest on - after all, I've put up w/John C. Dvorak-Dot-Org-Slash-Blog since before TWiT was TWiT! :D
By contrast, both Johnathan Coulton and Dave Winer provided a great deal of meat in their discussions with The Usual Gang of Idiots ;) - and I was VERY grateful Dvorak in TWiT 134 for once didn't crab about "This discussion's goin' nowhere!" There have been times recently when TWiT seems to run out of steam b/c the regulars know each other and what they're going to say too well, so it was great to hear everybody engaged and really drilling down on a few topics rather than the quick surface skim ending w/Dvorak complaining, again, that since he doesn't know much about a topic, it must be of no interest to anyone.
Great last couple of shows, Leo, and I at least am looking forward to hearing Steve Wozniak as a panelist again. The TWiT Network is the cornerstone of my podcast listening, and has given me the daily "oomph" I need to do my treadmill time each morning - keep up the wonderful work you do. :)
PS to the Orson Scott Card kerfuffle: He may be personally homophobic (and I'm not a fan of his work b/c his writing style doesn't catch me up), but he's also a fan of my wife Tamora Pierce's work - and she's written LGBT characters and gay-positive societies. So apparently he can separate his personal beliefs from what he reads and writes as a fantasy author....
I looked up Orson Scott Card on Wikipedia and he doesn't seem bad enough to be receiving all this hate. I know that I am at a different end of the political spectrum than Leo is (Mac included), but I still listen to many of the podcasts because they don't go political even though I have stopped listening to some of them due to the political content.
The strongest bigotry I am seeing is that against Card and his beliefs. Why is he a Neanderthal? Am I missing something? Is Twit filled with ranting raving leftist extremist hatemongers? If that is the case then I will feel less comfortable here.
If I wanted this type of political discourse then I would follow the Daily Kos or MoveOn. I'm here for tech.
Leo, loved the episode.
I'm sorry Leo but this episode was the worst TWiT ever. It wasn't the subject matter as I happen to enjoy that type of tech talk. What made the episode the worst ever was simply Dave Winer. Every podcast, article, or anything else that involves him that I have ever consumed makes me wonder why he doesn't change his name to Dave Whiner. The man complains and whines like no one I have ever known. It's to bad that someone who has contributed so much to the Internet and where we are today has to be that way. I'll keep on listening because I enjoy your content but please I beg you don't have him on again.