Tuesday
Mar042008
Love It Or Hate It? - TWiT 134
Tuesday, March 4, 2008 at 10:47AM 
There have been numerous comments about TWiT 134: Pave The Cowpaths on our private donors forum, most of them critical of the subject matter, one of our guests, an irrelevant discussion about audio issues in the middle, and my recommendation of a book by Orson Scott Card. Here's the response I posted on the forum. I wanted to post it here, too, to give you all a chance to comment.
I knew some of you would hate the show - and some of you would love it (far more lovers on Twitter and Pownce than here, not surprisingly). Unlike mainstream media, I don't make programming decisions based on what "most people" will like. That's the strength of this new medium - it's not ratings driven, it's idea driven. Sometimes TWiT isn't going to match your expectations. There are people who want it to be a TechTV Alumni fest, others who want it to be a tech news roundtable. It will be those sometimes, but I program TWiT as a show that reflects the most interesting and important issues in tech, as I see them. I don't mean to sound defensive here - I just want you to understand what I'm aiming for. The beauty of the new Internet media is that there's something for everybody. My shows are always going to reflect my interests. That's why I make 'em! If you share my interests, you'll enjoy (or at least appreciate) what I'm creating. If not, there are lots of other people doing really great programming, too. You have so many choices these days - let a million flowers bloom! I thought Winer was great - very, very insightful. If you can't get past his voice, listen to his ideas. Twitter et al. are new net memes that are as interesting, and I think, as significant, as RSS, but like RSS I don't expect everyone to get it right away. Dave is one of the few people I know who understand this stuff at a very deep level. As for the praise for Orson Scott Card - I love his work; I hate his politics. But that's no reason not to read or recommend him. I read many, many authors whose politics I abhor. If Card's homophobia or neanderthal agenda crept into his novels I'd not recommend him, but I can't think of a single incident where they have. If you can, please let me know and I'll stop recommending him. I do apologize for not editing out the audio issues talk - that was just an oversight. I certainly didn't mean to leave it in. I agree it wastes your time - very sorry.
Let's use the ratings system for this post to reflect your rating for the show. Thanks!
tagged TWiT, Twitter, dave winer, orson scott card, pownce in Blog
TWiT, Twitter, dave winer, orson scott card, pownce in Blog
Reader Comments (169)
Sorry Leo - listen to and love many of your shows but I can not agree with you on this one. Dave Winer sounds as though he is a sore loser. (A whiner if you will!) He may understand the tech but tech is there to improve our lives not because it has any inherent value. I agree with some of the points made by Steve Gillmor as to making the tech relevant to the community it serves. This was the first of your shows that I actually wanted to turn off. You have so many other insightful and entertaining guests. Thanks though for a series of great shows.
Very classy, Leo!
For me. Far better to challenge expectations and threaten comfort levels. It's all too easy to endlessly regurgitate (or hear regurgitated) what we already know -- TWiT is one place where we have the chance to hear something we may not yet know. An opinion we haven't yet considered, a story we may have glossed over, a perspective we ignored, the more the better.
Be a disruptive influence, it does us all better in the end.
Hey Leo. I actually thought it turned out to be a great show. The discussion about RSS and what it could accomplish was fantastic. I'm on both Twitter and Pownce and to be honest haven't used either very much. To me, the ability to post via SMS on Twitter is one of the best features of it, although most may not do it this way. Pownce is good in other ways and for other things. Both are what you make of them.
As for your programming, like you say, it's your show. I don't agree with your politics but I love and appreciate the work you do and it's your right to voice your opinion. I'll keep listening. If it weren't for your shows, my commute would be torturous.
Leo-
As I said in a comment on friendfeed, "Leo, I'm one of the folks that listened to 134 Live. I found it interesting informative and educational. Sure it was different that normal TWiT episodes (as with last week's with J.C.) but I've come to expect that from time to time".
The personality of TWiT changes each week depending on who's on the panel, and what's going on in the world. As you said it's a slow news week, that's when it's time to break the mold a bit, which you guys did.
As far as the audio issues are concerned, I've gotten used to it and appreciate it. It's the clearest symbol that this is different then traditional media,. The rawness of podcasting is part of the game we know it.
As far as OSC is concerned all I have to say is he has the right to believe anything he wants as long as he doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights. I disagree with him violently but that's a different issue. I doesn't effect his work, as far as I've seen, so I see no problem in recommending him.
Hey Leo,
You know me, I will always love the work that you do, and TWiT 134 was a really good show. Loved the discussion about Twitter and Pownce. I was thinking some of the same things that were discussed, so I enjoyed it.
Also, this is something I have thought about for a while, you have the perfect description of what your show is. It's YOUR show. You do with it what you will. I love it that you don't run the show by committee. It would be stupid if you did. It's stuff that you like to talk about, and what others like to talk about as well. Your and the panels passion is tech in all it's forms, and not everyone will get, understand, or like that, but you do. Hence, the people who didn't like the show can very easily unsubscribe as they can subscribe.
Anyway, you run your show the way you want it to run. It's already a proven success with the size of the audience, the content you deliver, etc.
Thanks for all the work you do.
Your faithful, available, and teachable Snowball
Steve "Snowball" Saylor
I guessed the episode would spark some complaints. It was different in style than usual so people who are used to the normal format may be surprised.
But it has happened before on TWiT and it doesn't mean every episode from now on is going to be like this.
It was interesting to hear from the creater of RSS.
It was very focused on a few topics, but its was a slow news week so why not?
Right after the audible pick I got bored and went to do something else. The content for me was just not interesting. Compared to last weeks TWiT this one was utterly boring. I do not have any direct feedback on what was wrong with it, I just found it to be dull.
Leo, great show. I've enjoyed every one. Thanks.
The only problem I have had with it so far (I'm about half way through) is that Winer sounds like a complete douchebag. He sounds like he was doing TWiT a favor by floating onto the showing a gracing us with his presence. I mean, when you make Divorak sound like the good guy, you're doing something wrong. :)
But, you know, like you said, it's your show, so you can/will/should do whatever you want.
To the people who really have a problem with Winer or even the book pick, get over it. The only options that you really have are to either A) press the "Stop" button, and/or B) Start your own podcast.
The audio problems weren't a big deal either, except for Winer exclaiming "That's it" like he was going to slam down the phone and pout in a corner. There wasn't a need to go through and try to slice any of that conversation out, really. There wouldn't have been a good return on your time investment in doing that.
Even though I didn't particularly like the episode, it doesn't mean that I am never listening again. It just means that people's opinions differ (gasp) and that's fine. I'll enjoy the next one.
I didn't enjoy the show. I found it all just quite snob-ish to a point I started asking myself: What does this have to do with technology? It got mind numbing to a point where I can prove that I learned more from Martin Sargents Internet Superstar then this episode of TWiT.
I will always listen and enjoy your work, but I cannot say I'll try to remember this episode.
I thought it was a great show. I may be a little biased because I liked the Gilmore Gang, but it was a nice change of pace.
One of the crazier things about the internet these days is how it plays into peoples' biases. You can now get your daily dose of news and information from a source that parrots your worldview. The downside of this is I think it has made people a lot more hostile towards people who have opinions different than their own.
It's warm & cozy inside of their echo chamber and they don't want to leave it.
I completely agree with Steve above me; Leo, it's your show. This is why you no longer work for ZDTV/TechTV/G4 and are out on your own with your own netcast network. If people don't like it, they don't have to listen (and it appears that some people did in fact decide to take this week off).
I, for one, completely disagreed with Dave Winer and (for the first time) was in absolute agreement with Wil Harris. All of these mediums are essentially doing the same thing, creating a community. That's what Web 2.0 does, and there's really no need for 10 different methods. The reason they all exist is, like you said, Leo, the community (or your friends) uses product A, so you use that instead of product B.
Now, on a more technical topic, I feel that Dave is trying to force change in what RSS is used for because he's the creator. While I can completely understand being frustrated or annoyed with people taking your idea and running a different direction with it, at the same time if that's what people do with it, you have no right to force them to think your way.
Although maybe I was just misinterpreting his comments/ideas. If so, I assume I will soon be corrected!
I didn't enjoy the content of that show, but didn't for a moment consider posting somewhere to complain about it. I'll just forget it and look forward to the next TWiT.
leo
what i like most about your podcasts, twit itself in particular, is they are very real
it's like sitting in on a conversation amongst some very smart people :: i like that
i'm not after a heavily programmed radio show delivered over the internet instead of the airwaves
so, yes, keep producing these sorts of shows
and while the audio chat in the middle was a little annoying it didn't go on too long, and added to the realness of it, and was encouraging to the rest of us as it shows even you professionals have such issues from time to time
gavin
I listened to the show and found it very interesting. I like that you get some of the top players on the show and let them share their ideas and thoughts with you and the audience. Neither the guests or the conversations posed a problem with me. I think part of TWiT's charm lies in the conversations like the one about Twitter/Pownce. There are a lot of new exciting websites and some do things better than the other. It is interesting to hear opinions on that. But maybe that's just me. I can't speak for everyone else.
As someone else has already written, I got bored with it and went over to the last episode of Windows Weekly. You do great work Leo and it is your show but if you can turn me off when coding at work it's got to be different.
Leo!
Lisened to your show today, and I loved it. It was insightful and educational. The RSS-debate was a good one, as was the discussion about Twitter-Pownce.
We need shows like this once in a while.
One tip: In Oslo, Norway works HÃ¥kon Wium-Lie. Tech-guru at Opera software with lot of knowledge about how html and css should work. Put him on to get the lowdown on how web-browsers really should behave!
Keep ut the good Work!
Carsten from Oslo, Norway
The only problem i have is the inclusion of winer. If you want an immature ass to help with the ratings, keep him. But the quality of the show will suffer.
Leo-
Not one of my favorite shows, but you can't hit a home run every time. As for people's opinions about the guests, you never know. Besides, if you hadn't done a show like this, how long would the show have been? Five minutes? Keep challenging us. Sometimes we'll toss flowers your way, other times rotten fruit. We're like that. :)
I would love Card to come on TWIT. I think he gets a bad rap for saying a couple bonehead things but overall if you read his blog and other areas that he shares his personal opinions he isnt as far out as you'd think. I HATE it when I hear people label him a neo-con. I mean really? A neo-con democrat? Interesting. Sometimes I wonder if people that make that assertion have actually read some of his books or what he has said outside of the silly snipits.
If you want to read the best OSC book in the bunch check out Songmaster...F'in brilliant! Anyway, keep up the great work Leo. I'm a big fan.
PS Obama all the way baby.
leo-
even though i do not use pownce or twitter i really enjoyed this twit. it was very interesting and now at a minimum i have a new great screensaver.
as for winer i thought he was a great addition to the usuals you have on the show. the thing that i did not like is he seemed to talk over people and get very upset when he could not dominate the conversation. there was a couple of times that he said something to the effect of can i please finish my thought/point. i thought that was a bit much but he might not be used to the format of the show.
either way i thought it was great.
I enjoyed the show, and thought it covered some interesting, though out of the mainstream twit subjects. I did find Winer to have the attitude of a 13 year old that has to go to see aunt gladys with the family. If he isn't happy, nobody will be happy. His insight and knowledge is great, except for the legend in his own mind syndrome. That may not be his attitude, but it came off that way.
Otherwise, as always, twit is the first thing out of my ipod on Monday morning. It always will be. Appreciate your work.
I think discussing hot tech news is always great and very entertaining to listen to. But sometimes you just need to spend time thinking about technology in a more global perspective, to point out some treads, to understand what is really important and wat's not.
This show did the second thing very well. I really enjoed listening to it and what's more important - it made me think about the problems you discussed even after I finished listening.
Leo, you r doing a great job. So I keep moving in this direction!
To be honest, Winer did make me cringe a few times. He's an interesting guy, but a number of times he verged on condescending. Recently another tech radio show/podcast I listen to had Richard Stallman on and it was a similar experience. Extremely bright, very opinionated people sometimes have difficulties articulating their ideas to a more mainstream audience. I stuck through it and I think learned something about the issues, although I may have to review the show again to catch all the discussion points.
The show's content was denser than most, so it takes a different mindset, and more concentration, to listen to it.
It was definitely a different TWiT, but difference will always appeal to some and not appeal to others.
The different panels that appear on the show make it great so keep mixing it up - not every panel will be a homerun for everyone. Thanks for the show.